December 20, 2001
Director Robert Altman
describes his process: He layers actors into film like paint on a canvas and
lets them create.
by Rob Kendt
Robert Altman wants you to see his films twice. Not that he's
vain, or out to top the repeat-business box office of Harry Potter. It's just
that this fiercely independent auteurÑwho's been directing films, television,
and theatre since 1951Ñviews filmmaking as a kind of layering process, with
levels and nuances that can't be absorbed in a single viewing.
That certainly rings true of Altman's best workÑ1975's Nashville, 1992's The
Player, most of 1993's Short Cuts, 1971's McCabe and Mrs.
Miller, and his mainstream breakthrough, 1970's raucous MASH. From his
lively sense of mise en scene to his impressionistic sound design, Altman at
his best is a film artist of a particularly high order. At his worstÑand he's
made some notorious stinkersÑhis films meander and curdle, though it's a
tribute to him that one reason some of his films don't take is that the
material seems beneath his formidable attention.
His new film Gosford Park marks both a departure and a
return to form: It's a period murder mystery set in an English mansion, with an
ensemble cast of mostly English actors playing both the "downstairs"
servants and the "upstairs" toffs. This egalitarian approach applied
off-screen as well: All these knights, dames, old pros, and young colts put in
several weeks of shooting, doing dialogue scenes some daysÑand lingering in the
background, fully in character, on many other shooting days.
It's fair to say that only Altman could pull off such an ego-less
actors' camp-outÑand that only he would make a murder mystery with such an
unhurried pace and such lapidarian attention to detail, most of which has
little to do with solving the crime.
When I interviewed the 76-year-old Altman recently, he had just
finished inviting a colleague to a barbecue at his houseÑan irresistible segue.
Back Stage West: I overheard you talking about
that barbecue, and thought about one of the images people have of your approach
to filmmakingÑthat you essentially host a party and invite a lot of people, and
film it.
Robert Altman: Well, people say that. See, I don't
know about other films because I've never worked as anything other than as a
director, so I've never seen another director work. I just think the whole
process is so intimate and personal and the actors are the main ingredient, of
course. All I try to do is make them comfortable with one another so they can
have fun and enjoyÑbecause it's hard fucking work, you know? There's a lot of
pressure on these people that we don't know about. And of course I like these
people.
BSW: That comes through in the work. I
wanted ask first about how you choose the peopleÑyour casting process. You
haven't worked with the same casting director on every film, necessarily.
Altman: Well, for many, many years I didn't use a casting
director. Then, on Kansas City I used Elisabeth Leustig, and she was
great. Then she died right after that, and Pam Dixon, who has worked on all of
Alan Rudolph's films, does my casting now for me. For Gosford Park it was Mary
Selway, because it was done in England. All of those people I've mentioned have
been just great.
BSW: But you've never had a Juliet Taylor,
as Woody Allen does, to introduce you to all the new actors who want to work
with you.
Altman: I hope I don't do anything like Woody Allen.
BSW: Well, I hate to make another Woody
Allen comparison, but one thing you do have in common is that you're both
directors people seem to want to work for, and cut their salaries for.
Altman: Well, this salary thing is a false thing. I can't
imagine an artist having a price. If they say they have a price, then I'm not
particularly interested in them, because they put some kind of value on their
work that indicates to me that if you pay the price you get them, and if you
don't you don't, and the art of it isn't really part of the issue. I understand
why they do it, because they get screwed so much by all these producers and
studios, they get lied to and hustled, so through years of experience people
decided to say, "Well, I'm going to get it up front, because I never get
it at the other end." You don't want to be made a fool of.
But I don't have those kinds of budgets. I can't compete with
Warner Bros. or these studios. It's pointless to try. I can't have an actor
come in who says, "OK, I'll come in and work free for you, but I've got to
have my makeup and my hair and my perks and my trailer, and where is my trailer
going to be parked?" It suddenly becomes not about the work that we're
doing but some other issue that I can't help them with. So I just stay away
from that sort of thing. There are a lot of great actors out there and most of
them, nobody knows who they are.
BSW: I'm interested in how much of what we
see in your films, including Gosford Park, is created in the script
stage, then in production, and finally in postproduction. I get the feeling
that each of those phases has a lot to do with the final product.
Altman: It's the actors who are the main element. Let's
equate it to a wall. I'm a painter and you give me a wall, and you say,
"Oh, it's a 70-foot wall, and you can paint the whole wall, but you've got
to have horses in it." I'll say Oh, OK. Then I get the paintÑand the
actors are the paint and it's living pigment, and each person who's added to
that bleeds through to the next person and causes reaction and reaction, and it
moves and finds its own composition. That's the way it seems to me. Everybody
doesn't work the same way, nor should they.
BSW: Actors certainly work different ways.
I know you've done some theatre directing, as well. Does that give you insight
into the different ways actors work, the interior vs. the exterior approach? Do
you speak that sort of actors' language?
Altman: I don't understand actors. By that I mean I don't
understand how they can do what they do. It is beyond my comprehension. My
method, if there's such a thing, is: I cast, and when the whole thing is cast,
it's like throwing rocks into the waterÑit raises the levels and all that. Once
it's all cast, I don't have a hell of a lot to do. I certainly don't direct them,
actors. I try to give them the confidence and try to earn their trust so they
can give 110 percent of what's possible, and I won't let them make fools out of
themselves. In other words I will protect them so they are not afraid to go
over the top.
BSW: I'm wondering, though, if you ever
work with actors who feel the need to be directedÑwho want to talk to you about
their character and such.
Altman: Well, there are some people that you just kind of
communicate with, and there's no explaining why. It's like love affairs. You
say, "Oh, wow, that's a great-looking girl over there," and you go to
talk to her, and you just don't connect. And I remember a few times of talking
to an actor and looking in their eyes, and I've suddenly realized that they're
not hearing a word I say. And it's not their fault. It's just chemistry. It
just doesn't work. But that happens rarely.
BSW: In your films with large casts, like Nashville or Gosford
Park, I'm curious about the extent to which improvisation is allowed,
encouraged, a part of the process.
Altman: Well, improvisation, if I were trying to explain
it, is a rehearsal tool. It's not really a method. I don't throw a bunch of
people into an area, and say, "OK, improv," and everybody does what
they want to do. It just doesn't happen. Improvisation is something that occurs
in the rehearsal process. Now, in scenes where actors have to interact, they
all protect themselves and they all deliver. I mean, they all became actors in
order to create. That's what they want, and so I just insist that they do the
creating. What I want to see is something I've never seen before. So how can I
explain what that is? It's impossible.
BSW: I understand that the actors in Gosford
Park had body mikes on in these large group scenes. The mixing process
must have been interesting.
Altman: Well, that's a technical thing, and it's a
selection. I'm able in the editing process to make the choice. I may have you
talking to your dinner mate, and if there's 12 of you at dinner there's maybe
six of those conversations going on. I may feature two of them. I don't know
what they're going to be until I come to that final edit.
BSW: I guess what I'm asking is, Do you go
in with a vision of how a scene will look and play? It sounds like the actors
create a lot of that and you sort through their creations.
Altman: I do not go in with a vision. In a film like
this, where we had 24 microphones out, what we mix down on the set is maybe the
main storyline stuff, the main character things. Everybody's doing something,
but I don't hear what they're talking about, necessarily. When we go to the
editing, then I bring all those tracks in and I say, "Shit, that's greatÑI
didn't know they were saying that!" And then I change the structure of the
whole editing of the scene.
BSW: You could tell a whole other story,
almost, that way.
Altman: Yes, absolutely. There are things in Gosford
Park like thatÑTom Hollander, particularly, was talking about going
into the Sudan and getting shoesÑI never heard that! That was never in
anybody's script; that was something that Tom did. He went into the period of
the time, he researched, he came up with certain information, he decided that's
going to fit my character. The same thing happened with most of these people.
Those are the surprises.
Look, I don't give a rat's fuck about plot. It's behavior. That's
my interest. You have to have a plot, because the audience has to think they're
watching something. But how many stories are there? Six?
BSW: It's funny that you chose to do an
English murder mystery in an old houseÑa genre that's typically all about plot.
Altman: Well, we all know that, though. I call this not a
"whodunit" but a "whocareswhodunit." And I made no
particular effort to disguise or to make it, "Boy, who's going to get
it?" Certain people will see it and say, "Well, I knew right
away." I don't care about that. And somebody said to me, "I loved this
picture, but I still don't know who really murdered him." I said, "I
think it was so-and-so, but I don't think that makes a lot of difference."
Of course, my goal is to get people to really see this film more
than once. The first time you see it you're playing whodunit, and you're not
looking in the corners. The second time when you know all these things, then
you're able to see a different film.
BSW: Is that an ambition of yoursÑthat
people see your films more than once?
Altman: I think with my films, if you see them once you
see a film, but to really get it, you have to see it more than once. I think
any good film should be seen more than once. Look at these great paintings: You
don't say, "Hey, we're going to go down and see the Rembrandt tomorrow."
"Oh, I saw that." Of course, what we're dealing with is a mixture:
We're trying to sell caviar disguised as candy, but we're really selling candy.
BSW: You're talking about art vs.
commerce?
Altman: I think the problem today is that all films are
dealt with in exactly the same way, and they're all basically made for the
lowest common denominator, which is the 14-year-old boy. You know, it was very
difficult for me to achieve an R rating on this film. The studio said,
"Why do you want an R?" I said, "I don't want young teenagers to
come in to this picture, because they'll be bored to sobs. They won't get it.
They won't like it. So why have them in there, because they'll go out and say,
'Oh, that's a shitty film.' " Now, if the film works and develops a reputation,
then on the tail end of it they can say, "Oh, let's go see that, I heard
it's good." Then they can sneak in or something, I don't care. But I
certainly don't want to attract them because it's not made for them.
BSW: I have to ask the inevitable question
about working with an English cast, whether that felt different, and in what
ways, both in terms of the actor's technique and professionalism, the way they
work.
Altman: Well, in the first place, they are theatre
peopleÑalmost 99 percent of themÑand they were used to working in ensembles.
They don't have this thing about, Do I have the starring part? Where do I park
my trailer? They liked working with each other. You just couldn't do this film
in America. Not in my lifetime.
BSW: You don't think so? You can't get
casts like this here?
Altman: The agents won't let them do it. "Oh, I'd
love to, I'll work for scale. What's my part, six days?" I said,
"No." I think the whole shoot was roughly 12 weeks. The first six and
a half weeks, Kelly MacDonald worked the longest, and Alan Bates worked
probably the next longest period. He was there, I'd say, for 10 weeks, an
average of four and a half days a week. The first six and a half days he was in
the back, back, background and didn't say anything. He came every day, got his
stuff on. You can get an actor to do it, but you can't get an actor with an
American agent. He'll say, "Oh, well, I don't have to be in those scenes.
Put somebody else in. I just want to do these scenes and run."
BSW: What you described about Bates,
thoughÑfor the actor's process, that's invaluable work.
Altman: Of course it is. Maggie SmithÑalmost all of her
scenes were done, I'd say, in the first six days. Then she was there another
four or five weeks, where she was in the background crossing through. People
said, "Oh, you won't get Maggie to do that!" And I said, "But
she's going to do the film."
BSW: I've read that these actors watched
the dailies with you. That's something a lot of actors don't get the chance to
do, especially not a whole ensemble cast. And some actors don't want to see
them. Is that something that you do regularly?
Altman: You bet. My favorite part of the whole filming
process is the dailies. We serve drinks, nobody takes notes. These people work
all this time, and by the time they see themselves on the screen it's edited
and it's a year later and they've done four other films, three theatre pieces;
they never get the applause. In the dailies, they get the applause of their own
peers. They cheer, and they start rooting for each other to do well.
BSW: I just want to press you on one
point. You said that you don't care about plot. Clearly, though, your films
reflect a way of seeing the worldÑI'm not the first to compare you to Jean
Renoir, but I'll mention him again. Renoir told stories, didn't he? Film is still
a storytelling medium, isn't it?
Altman: No, I don't think so. I equate it more with a
painting, like a mural. It's storytelling in that you have to have something to
keep the interest of the audience so they can watch the behavior. But the
interesting thing to me is the behavior. There are only six stories. Then it's
just a matter of when you choose to say "the end." You say, "Oh
God, does it have a happy ending?" Well, it's not an endingÑit's a
stopping place. The only ending I know about is death. So it was a happy ending
and now the picture's over, but that couple that just had their weddingÑtwo
months after that he shot her, and she caught him with her mother, and there
was a violent murder, and the children were born dead. Now it's a tragedy.
BSW: And clearly, even though your films
have a sort of egalitarian gaze, there are obviously differences in social
position, there's conflict, and there are villains, for lack of a better word.
Altman: But every villain can smile and every hero can
frown. I mean, none of us do just one thing. Except politicians.